First Intro To Ade
===
[00:00:00] Hello. Uh, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Wherever in time, you are welcome to this week's podcast. This week, I chat with my new friend aide Hoffman from all day nature. Play in Maine America. And this was a great chat because, uh, aid went. Left of field left of center outside of that box.
And she created her own. Registered. School kindie kinder, and it is an outdoor. Uh, play nature play kinda. So it operates all year round. Uh, outside 95% of the time, I think it was. And it just blew my mind in like cold snow, three feet of snow, like amazing. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's so cool to see. People who are [00:01:00] brave and follow their passion.
And these are the sorts of people that children need to be around because age is clearly passionate about outdoor play. And we talk a lot about, uh, the importance of that. And I just really thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I'm going to visit aid in, uh, November, October, November, the very end of October, very beginning of November. This year.
So I'm super excited and I, I, we do talk about how we'll do some filming and whatnot. So when I get over there, I will definitely be taking you along with me. So you'll get to have a look at the space the aid has created. For the children. And I want each of you to see that you have this in you too.
You are stepping outside of the norm and you are doing things. The way, you know, they're best for the children. [00:02:00] And I just really. I'm excited to be connected with so many people who are doing things for the children for our future. And it was just so heartwarming and I hope you enjoy this conversation with aid as much as I did. And without further ado, here we go right into it..........
Hello, hello and welcome to the Big Hearted Podcast. My name is Victoria Edmond and I am your host. Our aim here at the Big Hearted Podcast is to nurture a community of heart centered educators to change the perception and delivery of early childhood education and care in Australia and ultimately around the world.
We want you to be inspired by our guests and the topics we bring to you to think of new ways of being as an educator. We want you to feel a sense of belonging via this podcast so that you can engage any time of the day or night in [00:03:00] any place that suits you. We want you to become an educator that delivers education from the heart, as we believe this is how we create great change within our world.
So join us as we discover new ways to inspire each other here. On the big hearted podcast
All aid, it is so great to have you on the Big Hearted Podcast. Thank you for agreeing to chat with me. We've been, uh, touching base via Instagram for quite a while now, actually, probably over a year when I think about it. I'd say. Yeah, I connected with you after one of Kristen's summits, um, maybe even two years ago now.
Anyway, it's been a while and, uh, you are a, um, power, uh, not a powerlifter, you're a strong woman as well. So we also were chatting about that over the time, but, um, The thing that I'm most [00:04:00] interested in finding out about is all about your nature play program and what you've got set up because you've just done something pretty impressive over the last wee while and I'm really hoping that you might share how that all went.
I would love to. Yeah. Um, shall I start at the beginning? , it's quite a tale. Yes. Way for it. Okay. . So, yeah, it's interesting. I like to think about like the long term timeline of what brought me to where I am in like present day. And so, uh, let's see. In 2017, I was living in Dallas, Texas. Um, I had moved down there on a total whim.
I grew up in New England in Connecticut and decided, like, man, I really got to get out of here and just try something new before I get stuck here forever. And so I just kind of picked a pin on the map and ended up in Dallas, Texas, teaching kindergarten and it was lovely until it wasn't lovely. [00:05:00] Um, they had departmentalized kindergarten and so the kindergartners would move around, like, they were in 6th grade, right to different teachers for different subjects.
And it was very not child centered. And wildly not developmentally appropriate, I didn't think. And so in true aid form, once I realized that it wasn't actually what I thought I had signed up for, I just closed my door and did what I thought was right and let the kids play as much as possible and kind of did away with all the things I was supposed to be doing and, you know, Served the children in the way that I, I really saw that they needed.
I was going outside when we weren't supposed to be going outside because they craved it. And, you know, every time we had indoor recess, I was just going outside anyway, um, and just kind of breaking the rules a bit until I left and we vacationed that winter in. Um, this teeny tiny town in, it's like almost Northern Maine.[00:06:00]
It was like the middle of nowhere in January. There was like three feet of snow on the ground. It was like below zero. And my partner and I vacationed in this tiny cabin and we were so like relaxed and we really fell in love with Maine. And we thought, well, why don't we just move here? Randomly, and so before, you know, it that was in January, we gave our notice to our landlord in April, um, and bought a house site unseen, um, and move to Maine and I applied for.
to a job at a place based school in another tiny rural town here in Maine. They weren't hiring. I just kind of harassed her until she hired me, and went on several different interviews with her. And finally, we moved here in April of 2018. She hired me in August. And the rest is kind of history. And that's where I got my kind of start in nature based education.
Um, and. [00:07:00] I was, you know, I didn't have any real experience. I tell people the story of my interview at that school and they were like, you know, you're not really the candidate that we're looking for. You don't have any environmental education background and, you know, why should we hire you? And I just looked at her and I was like, I love being with children and I love learning alongside of them.
And if that's not enough, then I guess I'm not the right fit. And sure enough, she hired me. And I spent about three and a half years there through COVID, then founded a homeschooling support program with a fellow colleague of mine that I worked at that school with in 2020. And then in June of 2020, Three, I left that program to start my own way.
Um, I've always wanted my own program. I kind of like to do my own thing, uh, and don't like to be told what to do, so to say. So I had been looking since we moved [00:08:00] here for the right property, and lo and behold, Facebook Marketplace provided, and I found a lot of land right down the road from us, actually, here, um, in our small town.
And, um, I was like, let's just do it. I jumped all in. I didn't know if being licensed to license child care here in Maine was going to be a pleasant experience. I didn't know what it was going to be like, because I knew I wanted to be nature based and outdoors 95 percent of the day. And so the last year really has been me kind of.
Rewriting my personal narratives about what licensure is, what their licensors roles are in our relationship and building a program and seeing what boxes I need to check, but also how I can live outside of them at the same time. And so. Um, now we have been newly licensed, um, in June [00:09:00] of 2024. So just a few months ago.
Um, and I believe we are the, dare I say, I don't know for sure, but I think we are the 1st off grid licensed Nature based child care in the state. Um, so we are totally off grid. We're run by solar. Um, and it's, it's pretty badass. Um, I have to say, um, and I'm very excited and we're enrolling for fall now and, um, it's, it's been a really, like, a true labor of love and, um.
The spot is very special and the people that have come together to make it. So are equally as special. And so I feel very, very, very lucky to be able to do this work. Um, and it's been unfolding in really interesting ways, like, beyond just child care. So it's just it's neat to think about that, too. Yeah, it's interesting.
Isn't it? Because I think. When you work so closely with nature, you start to get into the cycles with nature and you [00:10:00] really start to need to have those seasons of, and, and I, like, I work with an ebb and a flow, so it's like, we call it the in breathing and the out breathing. So coming from a Steiner background, um, It aligns a lot with what I teach and how I work.
Anyway, so for me, nature play is a given and it's like, there's just nothing to compare it to, I don't think, and getting the children out into that and in all kinds of weather. So you have created a yurt. there or have you got the dome? I can't remember. You've got the yurt, don't you? I've got both. Um, so we have a, uh, uh, a 30 foot yurt, which is our license program facility.
We needed to have a place that maintained a certain temperature, had a bathroom and, you know, had all the checked all the boxes. Um, but I was like, how can I do this? But not put up somewhere that has, like, 90 degree corners and [00:11:00] like, fluorescent lighting. And so, of course, I did everything I could to get the, you're licensed and.
We did it, and it's beautiful. It's a really, there's something really powerful about being in a circular building. It just it grounds you almost immediately. Everyone that's walked through those doors has just been like, kind of like as soon as they get there and I. I don't know if it's the circle, if it's the white canvas and the brightness of all the lights and the windows and the natural light.
Um, but yes, that is our, that's our licensed space and that's our indoor classroom. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you guys, you get snow, like you, so you're out. You know, all the weather. How does, how does And most of our year is cold. Yeah. Well, see, from an Australian, we're sitting here, it's the first day of spring today here.
And, uh, my brother [00:12:00] sent me a picture of his dog at 3 a. m. last night. He's up on, in Queensland at the moment on the Gold Coast. And he was like, oh, it's so hot, buddy's really struggling here. It's like really hot. He's still got his winter coat on, you know? So It was, we're supposed to get to like 35 degrees yesterday.
I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, but it's, that's like mid summer weather that we're getting. So for us to think about going out, like I've got educators that are like, Oh, it's so cold. I'm like, you're in Australia. It doesn't really get cold here, mate. Yeah, it's all relative. I mean, Like I said, most of our year is cold weather.
Um, and a lot of times in our program, like ours, it's the parents that can't quite get over the hurdle of like, well, what do you mean you're outside all winter? Like, what do you mean you're outside all day? Like, like, you're outside for like an hour. And I'm like, no, I'm like, I'm an outside creature. I try not to go [00:13:00] inside and it just becomes a part of our classroom culture is that like, you know, that's really where we settle.
Um, that is our shared space. and, you know, the gear that we have to wear.
Who we are, and, you know, it becomes like this interesting part of the children's identity to their, you know, their different colored snow suits and their brain jackets are different patterns and like, adorable, you know, accessories and rain mittens and things like that. But it just becomes a part of the learning.
Um. Equipping yourself and to be out in that weather, whether it's like icy, cold rain or that wet, heavy snow, or maybe it's that, you know, the freezing cold temperatures where, like, everything is very, very dry, but freezing. And it just, it was a learning curve for me to, like, as a teacher coming into that, right, coming from the traditional classroom.
And I was like, oh, man, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, did I make the right choice? But I [00:14:00] just kind of followed the children's lead, which is interesting. Because that's not what I was taught to do, but I was like, well, if they're they have to wear this kind of gear, I'm just going to do what they do. Um, and, you know, I'm just going to do the things that they like to do to be warm, which is sledding and shoveling and building snow people and making giant snowballs.
And so. The children actually taught me how to be outside in nature and inclement weather, which is really very beautiful. And, you know, in turn, I get to kind of, like, turn that over to the cohort and the families as well. But, you know, it's, it's, it's a logistical thing to get all the gear and order and and keep it organized and maintain it.
But it's, it's really, I mean. I love it. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Just think the resilience, it, it like produces resilience and, you know, because once you get cold, it can be hard to warm up. So you've really got to pay attention to your [00:15:00] body. You've got to pay attention to what you're doing and in order to keep the extremities warm and blood going to them, you've got to move and.
Right. I just think it's so good. I don't know about you, but in the Facebook groups I'm in for Australian education, um, there's, there's a couple of different sorts of education models here. There's center based or long daycare where, you know, parents will drop their kids. There's You know, sometimes 70. I saw a service that was approved for 290 children the other week and I was just like, Oh, that just sounds horrific to me.
But that's like long day care settings and they have these really strict ratios and they've got these rooms that these children are in and then they get to share the yard at different times of the day. To me, it's institutionalized care. would never send my children there. Do not promote it at all because I just think it is so terrible for [00:16:00] children.
And then you've got things like family daycare, which is what we do, and that's four children with one educator working from her home. There's so much more flexibility and freedom to be able to get out. But what I'm seeing in the long daycare, and it's happening more and more and more and more now.
Almost daily, there's posts about educators saying, Oh, I'm, you know, I've come home and I got hit in the head with a steel bottle today. And, you know, these, the behaviors that the children are expressing, I don't know what to do anymore. Like they're having these massive meltdowns and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, get outside.
get outside and let these kids move. Children don't move like they used to and this is why I really wanted to chat with you and about this weather stuff. I mean we've got the other side where in summer you can go outside and be burnt to a cinder [00:17:00] really really quickly and skin cancers are a real thing to be aware of here but I think everything is workable, and, and I'm really interested to know, like, how do you go when it comes to working, you call them the regulators, we call them the department here, how, how do you go working with them in approving this all day outside, like, did they care, or were they like, Yeah, that's up to you to worry about.
Uh, luckily our licensor, so they're, you know, they're organized through counties and Maine is like giant, but also so small. So each licensor has multiple counties and our licensor is a huge advocate of outdoor education. So we really lucked out and I, what's happening here in Maine. Is really amazing.
It's similar to what happened in Washington, you know, several years ago, Washington state where there's a big push for outdoor education. They [00:18:00] see the impact. They see the value. They see that. It's like. Best way to learn, and what's happening here is that the licensing department is getting trained in various aspects of education.
So, the entire licensing department right now in Maine is getting like, from the, like, the uppers all the way to like, each licensor all the way the whole tree. They're all getting trained in risk management and how to conduct risk benefit assessments, which is huge. I didn't even know what that was when I started.
So, for them to kind of do site assessments, and they're visiting other outdoor programs that are, you know, you know, Functioning as such, even though they're not labeled, we don't have outdoor licensing yet, but there is a huge push and a lot of work behind the scenes happening at the state level to incorporate outdoor nature based licensing protocols and rules and regulations like they have in Washington [00:19:00] state here in Maine.
And so there's a ton of work happening behind the scenes. And so. Luckily, we are in a, in a state that supports this work and is working really hard to just ironic, like regulated. How do you regulate nature? That just feels so wrong. Um, I feel like that's like a whole nother tangent I could go on, but we're very supported here.
Um, and. I think to know, I think it's a huge piece of mind that in this state, that from the very tippity top of licensing, they want to see more of this happening. I had a assistant principal message me yesterday and she's like, you know, our superintendent wants to take our pre K program from 4 days to 5 days and she's willing to hire somebody for 1 day like that's incredible that a superintendent of schools is already on board with this incredible, you know, type of programming.
And so I think we're. You know, we're all kind of feeling frustrations, like, from the past that are just kind of [00:20:00] lingering, but we're really moving in a beautiful direction here in Maine. I can't speak of other states, but here in Maine, I think we're really, there's been a lot of work happening in the last decade.
And I think we're starting to see it really culminate, which is incredible, but. You know, the experience of getting a program licensed. Was very joyful for me. I was told it was going to be very, you know, frustrating and that I was going to be met with a lot of resistance. But, you know, my licensure went through all of the paperwork and she was like, well, this doesn't apply to you because you're outdoors and she just would check it off.
And like, this doesn't apply to you. Like, she was just very. You know, yeah, flexible, um, and, you know, she wants to see it done. Um, and she's connecting other people, um, who want to, like, move from a traditional setting to something more outdoor based. And so, you know, like, I just I'm repeating myself, but we're just very, very lucky that we're not up against, like, the big, bad machine that doesn't believe in [00:21:00] this.
Yeah. I mean, so it sounds like, yeah, it sounds like Texas is the big bad machine. Like, I don't understand. Just shocking. Yeah. I don't understand who makes these decisions, you know, like, cause we, And I think people too, like we only have, you know, a smaller number of different departments because Australia only has, what, five states or whatever it is and a few territories.
Um, so we don't have the breadth that you have over there. Um, we all work under one national law and then each individual state has some differences depending on what's happened in their state or the type of environment that that state has. So, but pretty much we, we, we all work under the same thing and we have a framework that we have to work under as well, which is a national framework.
It's called the National Quality Standards and Early Years [00:22:00] Learning Framework. It's a brilliant document. But it's quite difficult sometimes to get your head around in that it's written by academics, not for the layperson. Like, I am nowhere an academic person at all. That's why, like, nature play really resonates for me too, because I feel like all the lessons you need to learn about life can be found in nature.
So, Do you find that being outdoors all the time that you have like behavioral issues that come up, like what, what's the most difficult thing you find dealing with? And it's probably your parents. What's the most difficult thing? Yeah, sometimes that buy in is hard. Um, you know, and I'm finding that in our, you know, our founding year for enrollment and finding those founding families.
Um, but. You know, I, I want to be really mindful to say that, like, just because you're outside doesn't mean [00:23:00] you're not going to have any behavior, you know. You know, bumps in the road, or every child has their own set of exceptional needs and unique preferences. Um, and so we're bound to run up against just by the law of probability children that that just it doesn't work for them.
And I've had a couple of those, and they've been very, very challenging. And I then pause and think to myself, my goodness, what would what would it be like if I was in my old classroom in Dallas with. No windows, fluorescent lights, no natural colors, timed recess, like standardized testing happening all the time.
Like at least this problem, you know, air quotes is happening in a space with no walls. And when they do feel frustrated and they want to run, they can, and they know where to stop, which is so interesting. I had a child over the summer. I ran like a small summer program. And, uh, this individual was, was someone that had needs that I just [00:24:00] don't think I could have met if I was going to have him all year with a bunch of other kids.
But he knew that if he was frustrated, he could be like, and run and he would stop. He would stop at the next stopping spot. That would be on our way up, which is this like rocky path that usually frogs are hanging out on. And he would just sit there. There's a little like an old doc that I brought down there and put in, um, and he just sat there for like 20 minutes and he just regulated himself.
And when he was ready to, I knew where he was, I could see him. Um, but what a beautiful gift to be able to be like, you know what? I trust you, even though this moment is very hard, you can go and give yourself space. And so. You know, I think there's a certain just ease that comes to being outside with children, especially with children who feel pressured or uncomfortable and confined spaces and, you know, confined spaces could just be a building.
It doesn't have to be a 4 walled room. [00:25:00] Right? But I also want to just be mindful to, to not have this assumption that it's kind of a cure all because I think that that can be. Kind of a misleading notion, you know, for some people that are like, oh, we'll just stick it outside. Most cases that works, but sometimes they need a little additional support as well.
And, um, these programs, especially here in the states are very tiny and sometimes we just cannot accommodate them because we're understaffed. But surely. The outdoors is hugely beneficial because they can they could utilize the space this infinite somewhat infinite space to, you know, wax sticks, throw rocks into streams and, you know, do all the things I've built targets for kids and they would just throw things at the target for hours and hours and hours and what a gift because, you know, They have the ability to do that.
And, you know, they're also building like hand eye coordination skills and like that's pre literacy and like, you know, you can go down [00:26:00] that rabbit hole. Um, but surely, yeah, I think it is helpful for so many children that would normally have like even elevated issues in a traditional setting. Yeah, I mean, I feel it to myself when I've been inside for too long and like I need to have a Like, I don't know about you, but I, I've recently got into human design.
Um, I don't know if you've ever heard of that or not, but, uh, my environment, yeah, well, I, my projector three, five projector here. Um, my environment is mountains. So for me, I have this affinity to being out in, in the bush or the woods, if I was in America. Um, and I know some children that would not work well in there at all because they prefer a cave like structure, which, you know, being inside a room is, is more safe for them.
They would feel more at home and at peace in that. So being out in the, [00:27:00] big wide open could actually be more challenging for those children. So you're right, it's not for everybody. Um, and there's also children that have, you know, heightened anxieties and that could be a real push and too much of a stretch for them.
So there is a place for everybody and it's not always going to be the place for everybody. So talking about your space that you've got, um, you know, zones and creeks and, um, do you call them creeks? Is there a creek over there? Um, well, it depends. I mean, yes, you know, streams, rivers, there's all sorts of, Right.
But the creek is something that we use. That's not like a foreign term. Um, so can you tell us about the space? Like paint us a picture? Sure. Yeah. So, um, nature play all day is, uh, located in a teeny tiny, um, actually think it's called a village. I don't think it's actually a [00:28:00] town. Um, and it's called Appleton, which is very quaint and very like Quintessential New England sounding, right?
I'm picturing like everyone's having a bushel of apples under their arm or something. It's not actually what happens here, but it's the picture and we're situated on 18 and a half, just under 18 and a half acres of forested space and the program is down a very long dirt road. Um, and so just getting there, you already feel like you're away.
Um, which I think is. Both a hindrance to getting there, but also that part of the magic, um, and this kind of mysteriousness that is this program in the woods. And so when you pull in, um, we've got, um, at the top of the hill, that's where our yurt is. This is 30 foot white. You're with a bright yellow door. I think the color is called smiley face.
You can't even help but smile when you see it. And then [00:29:00] there's a small, like, another small outbuilding that houses all of our solar equipment. And then from there, you go down a hill. It's about an 800 yard walk or hike down this kind of winding path where you pass these beautiful wolf pines, these old, old, old pine trees.
They're, um, And I've named some of them, um, Walter Evergreen. Um, Walter was my grandfather's name, um, who recently passed. And my grandmother used to call him Walter Evergreen because he was always planting trees. And so the first wolf pine that you come across on your way down to our forest classroom, which we call Base Camp, is Walter Evergreen.
So you cross, um, Harriet Stream, which is the body of water that is our property line. Um, you cross that, which is that stopping. Spot that I mentioned earlier with that other child and then just a few paces more and you enter base camp and there we have a canvas wall tents that you [00:30:00] might see, you know, I don't know, just anywhere.
They're all over the place that has a wood stove in it, which we cook oatmeal on in the winter for snack and it's just, then we have a, you know, Legit covered space for when there's rain and cold weather, which is really helpful for those kids who are new to being outdoors for long periods of time. And within base camp, there is a place.
There's a slide. There's hammocks for swinging and resting. There's a mud kitchen. There's a loose parts area. There's a dome that is empty right now, but we hope to put raised beds and fortify some of the supports to put hammocks in there for the winter months so that they have a warm place away from base, like the tent itself, which is like, in the heart of the classroom to rest in the winter.
Um, but it's very special. I discovered this summer that we have several little groves of wild, um, blueberries growing and raspberries. So to see the kids kind of, you [00:31:00] know, Running about and picking up plump, you know, saying plump blueberries is just so cute. Um, and also, you know, we're like, uh, in live version of blueberries for salad.
I don't know if you know that book, but, um, it's, uh, Robert McCloskey, main, um, Author here, but it's like, it's a total New England classic. So, um, it's just, it's really, it's very sweet. The wildlife is incredible. Um, and it's, you know, there's a mix of, of different types of evergreens and hardwoods, lots of hemlock.
So there's that beautiful dappled light, um, for the hammock area, which is just so dreamy. Um, but that that's. The lay of the land, pretty much. Do you use the whole 18 acres or not? No, I don't even know that we'll ever see it all with the kids, to be honest. I think there's, you know, there's a couple of different like old logging paths that we can adventure on.
And there's different, you know, areas that'll probably [00:32:00] develop as, you know, adventure spots and different climbing spaces and places to see the beaver activity on the Harriet stream. But, you know. Yeah, which is like, so great, but also like, they're just troublemakers, honestly, but they're so fun to watch.
And, um, they, they make for like, really great storytelling to when you're, when you're on hikes and things like that, because you find like, beaver snacks, like, you know, little branches that have the, they've been eaten off and they're. Pointy and it's just pretty, it's pretty great. Um, but yeah, I don't think we'll see all of that, all of that property, especially with the kids.
Um, a lot of the back end of our property is a bit wet. Um, so I don't think we'll make it back there. It's pretty dense, um, like beyond base camp. Um, it's pretty dense, so we may adventure a bit, but not very far. We have so much to enjoy. So when you got your space approved, Do they come in, like, check it all?
How do you, [00:33:00] like, because I mean, a risk assessment brain is going, hang on, 18 acres, no fences. What wildlife do you have? Beavers are pretty cute. I don't think they'll ever kill you. Do you get like bears and mountains? I'd be very surprised. Um, there is like rumor of a roaming bear in the neighborhood.
I've not seen it. We've had game cameras up. Um, I think it's like this like, I don't know. I've not seen it myself in the last year that we've been there. Um, but, you know, we're mindful about leaving seed out and things like that and just keeping good care and leaving no trace, but which is helpful. Um, but, yeah, there's certainly a process to apply for your license.
And then once the application has been approved, the licensor comes out and checks your license. Space. So she came in and checked all the boxes for the inside space. The fire marshal has to come out and approve the space and tell you how many children the space allows you to have, which is [00:34:00] hilarious because he told me I could, it was approved for 11.25 children.
And I'm like, sir, could you please round up to 12 ? Um, so, you know, he does that kind of math and then he also came down and checked out Basecamp. Um, but the Licensers themselves aren't totally concerned with. Um, and she's not a licensed space camp because that's not the licensed space. Um, but, you know, she's curious and supportive.
So, of course, she came in and checked it out. But, you know, the 10 I had to provide all sorts of documentation that it was treated for fireproof with fireproof material. Um, you know, I had to check out the wood stove. I had to get that, you know, approved by him. And so. I mean, I think it's easy to feel like, oh, my gosh, that's so much work.
There's so much red tape, but, like, I just had the best time, like, having so much fun and getting to know all of the different people that were coming and. You know, getting to know them, and I think that, you know, starting a [00:35:00] program, that's like, a little bit outside of the box, the biggest takeaway that I could probably share with anybody who might want to do something like this is to not focus on, like, whatever, uh.
Challenges might be presented, but instead really pour your energy into building relationships with the people that are part of this process. And that's like, exactly what I did. As soon as they accepted our offer on the land, I found out who my licensure was and I called her and I was like, hi, it's me.
I'm aid. I don't know what it's going to look like, but this is what I want to do. This is where I'm going to do it. And. I was just so excited. I told her all about it and I communicated with her regularly for a whole year before she even showed up. Um, and we built a really nice relationship and I went through the same.
Um, kind of process with the town with the code enforcement officers to get all my permits for putting up the yard and the shed and the tent and all the things and. The biggest takeaway again, just to reiterate is it's [00:36:00] really about relationships and that carries on like, beyond. You know, starting the program site and then carries on into your families and things like that, but nothing will work if you don't have a great relationship and it will always be hard if you don't have a great relationship.
So, I've been pouring all of my energies into maintaining positive and transparent relationships with all of the different officials and it's made a ton of difference. Yeah. I totally resonate with that. I have great relationships with, we operate in two states, so with Queensland and New South Wales departments, um, because I, I want to know that I can trust them.
And sometimes you'll come across some people, because you don't always deal with the same person, um, you go to a board and they, they, sort of field you out from there. So sometimes you're not working with the same people all the time. Uh, however, they can look at your file and they can see [00:37:00] the kinds of, um, interactions you've had in the past.
So, and they will gauge by what's on your file as to whether, you know, they need to pay particular attention or whether they can have a little bit more creativity with you and I've always had great relationships because I know that they're the people that at the end of the day will give me the yay or the nay and so it's in my best interest to Get as many yeas as I possibly can, which means I should not be a doofus to these people.
Um, and, and coming there with, you know, I need this. And, but there's times for that, for sure, when you've got to stand your ground. But generally having those really warm and reciprocal relationships is, is very important. Um, because you get more of what you want. So, yeah, I, yeah. And, and it's, it's sometimes.
they [00:38:00] enjoy being able to creatively think outside the box too, because they get annoyed with having to constantly be meh on everything, you know, or picking people up or, you know, having to make people be accountable and all the rest of it. So when they get people that come in that go, hey, I've already looked at the regulations, I can see I've got to do X, Y and Z.
However, if I do A, B and C. this is what I'm thinking, what do you, what do you reckon? And then they're like, oh, oh, it's something a little bit different. And it engages them too, which is super important. Um, I'd really like to go back to the wildlife. Yes. What exactly have we, have we got there? Like, cause I don't know anything about Maine.
Um, I'm heading over there in October and I'm actually going to AIDS place. So I'll be coming back with a whole heap of footage and sharing with everybody because I'm like [00:39:00] so excited. Is there anything I need to be like scared of? No, no. The good news is there's nothing poisonous here in Maine. Um, so there's.
That, which is probably a relief coming from where you are. Um, but let's see, I can share with you what I have seen and heard on this particular property. Um, in at the end of May, we hosted a women's play retreat, which is really very special. And we spent 2 nights on site camping, which is so great. Um, but we heard, uh, lots of coyotes nearby.
I don't know if they were actually there, but they were nearby. Um, tons of owls, you know, the normal forest stuff, uh, bullfrogs, different types of tree frogs. Um, there's a ton of birds of prey, beautiful, huge ravens that are very vocal during the day. We've got a pair of what I think are sharp [00:40:00] shinned hawks, juveniles that are flying around regularly.
Um, and We've seen bald eagles, lots of deer. Um, I think I mentioned beavers, of course, squirrels and chipmunks and mice and all of those types of things. Um, and lots of different songbirds. Um, yeah. So that's just, it's very gentle and lovely. It's not scary. Although I have to say we did hear, um, I don't know.
Do you know much about owls? A little bit. Yeah. So we heard them, I believe it's their mating call. It's called duetting. I don't know if you've heard of this. It's terrifying. It's such a terrifying sound. It's very unsettling. So you can, everyone can do themselves a favor question mark and Google that. But it's a very unsettling sound.
We all thought it was like people in the neighborhood kind of messing with us, which was not the case. It was just 2 owls getting to know one another on a special evening. So, um, [00:41:00] I had never heard that. The owls that I have heard. Around are the barn owls are super common around here and they're just so beautiful and they bring a real kind of mystique and magic.
Um, especially if you're there, like, right now, it's 7 o'clock at night and it's just dusk now. And, you know, we're just entering the fall season, so it's darker a little bit earlier. Um, but when they start to do their like, right at dusk, it's like, Oh, like, you remember that you're sharing the space with these amazing creatures.
And it's been really incredible to hear sounds like that with the children present. Um, and I'm looking forward to more. But there's nothing scary for you to worry about. Now that's cool. So, so are the beavers going to be around when I'm there? I've not seen any. Um, there is, I think there's one or two beaver dams on the stream.
Um, I don't know if they are abandoned or still [00:42:00] active, um, but you might. Okay. You never know. There's turtles and all sorts of stuff. Oh, that's so sweet. I, I, I, I'm such a bird watcher. Like I, I, I hit, I don't know, 38 and then I became a bird watcher. Um, and I never thought I would do that, but like, I just find the bird life fascinating.
And it's been really cool because the children, when I would work, cause I used to work hands on with the children and we would, go tawny frogmouth hunting, uh, with our eyes only. Yes, yes. Tawny frogmouths are part of the nightjar family. So they're often mistaken as an owl, but they're not. Um, and they have this incredible ability to camouflage themselves and look like a broken stick.
Um, and that's their camouflage. Uh, but if we have to look up what the, what, what owl was it? The barred owl. Barred, B A R [00:43:00] D. B A R R E D. Yep. B A R R E D. Oh, but And it's called, uh, a duet. Duet. Okay, so if we have to look that up, you have to look up the sound of a koala, because those look cute and cuddly, but they are terrifying to hear, uh, when they call.
Like terrifying. The first time I heard a koala call. I was like 18, 19. My girlfriend and I were up in Noosa at this lookout. There was no one around. We were watching sunset. It was amazing. This car pulls up and then all of a sudden we hear this sound and she and I looked at each other and we bolted back to the car and the guy got out of the car and he was like, it's just the koala.
And we were like, no way. Is that a koala? It was horrifying, horrifying. So you have to, you have to look that up. Uh, and we'll, we'll, I will. [00:44:00] Um, yeah, so, I'm really keen to know like what are the things that the parents really struggle with when it comes to involvement in your style of program because this is your first year so of course people are going to be like nah we don't know what that is but if you could like have an opportunity to help parents be rest assured, uh, what would, what would be the things that you would be saying to the parents?
Well, the number one thing that a lot of preschool aged parents are worried about is if they're in a setting that's play based. Are they going to be ready for kindergarten? And so I, 1 of my things I love to do in my spare time is make resources that kind of illustrate those things and kind of lay out what activities in nature actually translate to quote kindergarten readiness, right?
We're not doing worksheets. I don't have a workbook. We're not doing, [00:45:00] you know, training. You know, didactic lessons or anything like that, but when they're climbing trees and they're learning how to hold a peeler to start carving, you know, they're improving their dexterity. And so I use examples like that when I'm maybe touring a family at the program or having conversations just very casually.
But then I always have all of those resources out if I have an open house as well. So they're kind of free for the taking and browsing. But I really. What is helpful, I think, to share is that when I'm meeting with families for the 1st time, and they seem kind of unsure, I assure them that it is safe. It's not, you know, this is not a dangerous option.
Um, and. I asked them about their own childhood and what it looked like and sounded like and felt like. And oftentimes I would say, you know, almost 10 out of 10 times. It's that they spent a ton of time outside in the woods, you know, long [00:46:00] periods of uninterrupted play and they were barefoot and they got to know different people.
Trees that are special and meaningful to them. And I just remind them that, you know, children have the right to that today, just as we did, um, you know, back in the 80s or whatever. And that is really helpful, I think, to get parents on board, coupled with, you know, what is what is learning proof of learning look like in a nature based setting?
And it's really just doing stuff. Holding different tools, and like I said, climbing and doing benefit risk assessments. Like, what an amazing thing that a child can learn how to do that by the time they're 5 and learning about what a risk and a hazard is and how that creates critical thinking skills and how that is like, all of the work we do in a nature based play based setting is like, for long term, right?
This is building incredible skills that are going to be held with them all the way through adulthood and make them people that are leaders in their field. And, you know. [00:47:00] Their peers are going to look up to them because they can think critically and problem solve and, you know, their social emotionally aware and in tune.
And this is this is the kind of people that we want in the world. And I, I've not. You know, I'm biased now, but I, I have not seen another way to do it. Um, or I feel like I can check all of those boxes off. Um, because you're already just kind of so chill. Like we talked about earlier, when you're out in nature, you're just, you're just there.
We're just living, learning together and, and it's, the pressure is off and I think. the children have this like, like they can activate a new level of learning when that pressure to perform is off. Yeah. It's, it's interesting, isn't it? Because, um, I, find that the resilience is really missing. There's a whole generation of children who I [00:48:00] think really since the implementation or the invention of the smartphone really came in to play.
I mean, I had the internet when I was a kid, it was dial up, um, but you know, we, we were, we would only get to play it. play on the internet in the evening, you know, we were still outside during the day so we still had that unstructured, free play and it wasn't, you know, we weren't inside all day, you know, whereas now I find like in our street now, When my kids were little, they used to draw their friends out because they weren't allowed on their devices during the day.
Now I don't see any kids in our street playing. Um, and there's plenty of kids around, uh, but they're just not out playing anymore. Or maybe I don't notice them when they are. I, I just don't know. It just seems different, you know, because I live on the street I grew up on and which just sounds so redneck, but there we have it.
I live [00:49:00] in the house that my best friend from high school had, you know, I'm in their place. So, um, it's so, you know, we, we used to see Mountains of bikes on the lawn, you know, I, I don't remember the last time I saw a house that clearly had all the kids in the neighborhood there because of all the bikes that were there.
I just, I just, I do worry that we're losing. children that are going to have this innate internal resilience and ability to, like you say, critically think, problem solve, risk assess, in the moment, in times where there's no adult watching. Because all of a sudden they are adults, adults, and all of a sudden they've got to start making these decisions.
So I do hold some serious concerns for the next 20 years when the current group of [00:50:00] children who are not exposed to these options are going to be growing up and making decisions and being employed and all that sort of stuff. Like I just, I do hold some concerns for that. So I, I, when I see programs like yours and people really, you know, embracing that play based learning and not being so involved in what the children are doing, but rather just holding space for the children.
I get really excited to see that, but it does worry me that it's, there's so few and far between them now. Um, is it, oh, there's a big bell. Oh, let me hear my dogs are drinking water. Oh no, there's a bell tolling. I don't know what that is, but that's like very solemn after that. Yeah. Sorry. I agree with you.
I, there is like, there's, I don't know now [00:51:00] what it was called, but there's a study, um, about like the zone of comfort and safety and how, you know, back in like the 50s, 60s, even in the eighties and early nineties, like the zone of comfort for parents was huge. You could go and. You know, several blocks on your bike, um, and you were safe, right?
Um, but now it's just become smaller and smaller and smaller. Um, and there's a really beautiful illustration of it. It's like a map to try to find it and send it to, um, but I, it just that. You're right. That circle is just getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time is going on. And like, you know, we're heading like, like, our knuckles are getting wider and wider as we grip to childhood.
And it was not only like, I think it's healing for teachers to. Kind of do this play based, you know, assume an observer role rather than like a, I'm going to tell you all the things because I know all the things roll. It was healing for me as an educator, but it's also healing in a sense for [00:52:00] families, because, like I mentioned earlier, they remember like their own childhood and what a gift they're giving their own child to have, like, This opportunity to learn the difference between sarsaparilla and poison ivy, and then like their Children are teaching them that, you know, in a parking lot or something like that.
So it's. It's definitely changing, and I think it can be disheartening because it's so big, right? This, like, epidemic is like, so big this, you know, not having access to nature and things like that. But I like to think of it as, like, I can only cook a dozen cookies at a time. So, like, 1 batch at a time 1 year at a time 1 cohort at a time.
And the ripple effect of that is is is huge. you know, immense, you know, you've got four kids in your family child care. Those four kids have this beautiful experience that they're passing on to their family, maybe their cousins, you know, and so there's a huge ripple effect with this work, which I think is kind of the [00:53:00] saving grace when it comes to thinking about this, like, I keep using that word epidemic, but this kind of crisis that we're in in childhood.
Um, And to really just stay positive and that the work that we're doing is valued, even though it might not feel like that on some days. Um, and it's important. It's absolutely vital to humanity really. Um, but yeah, for sure. 100 percent agree. I mean, it's, it's funny because I was listening to a podcast the other day and the lady was talking about how, um, children are not allowed to like walk to school anymore.
And they're so under surveillance, you know, even if they've got a phone, their parents know exactly where they are every second of the day. Like they're, They've got the Snap Maps and all this, like, they do it to each other as well. My daughter, who's 21, she's got girlfriends and they were watching where each other was and I was like, what are you doing?
[00:54:00] Oh, you know, Leanna is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, how do you know that? She's like, oh, I'm watching her on Snap Maps. I'm like, Why? Why are you? Like, why? It's just terrifying. But see, this is where the danger lies. It lies in their hands with who they're exposed to online. That's where the danger is now.
It's not from walking home from school. It's, that's not where the danger is and it just, it makes me feel so glad to see that there are people who hold this and hold it really dearly and are stewards of the land that they work on, but also of the children that come in to play with them. And it's just, I cannot wait to come and visit.
I can't wait to come and see what they do there and, you know, and hang out and really, you know. educator to educator talk about this stuff because I just, and to show it, show it, like I'd love, I can't wait to [00:55:00] put some clips together to show, showcase the space you have there because I just think it's, one, you're overseas, it's totally different, it's like nothing Olive ever has seen before and I'm like really excited to do it, and two, to give educators a perspective to go, well far out, they play in three feet of snow all day long.
Yeah, I can get out in an Australian winter. No worries about that at all. Um, and, and I just, yeah, I just, I don't know. I think being able to see how other people do things is really, really cool and exciting as well. So just quickly, you talked about being approved for 12. Is that what your final numbers are?
That's right. And there's two two educators a day. Uh, yes, depending on the makeup of the ages of Children, um, that then changes because we'll have a mixed age cohort that changes how many teachers will have to have. Um, but I, in a perfect world, I would like to [00:56:00] have 8 Children and 2 teachers. And if we go past 8, I would love to have a 3rd teacher.
I don't know, like, financially, if our models still work. Support that, but, you know, there's opportunities for interns for local universities and things like that. Also, parent volunteers are some great local organizations putting together, like, a volunteer group that can go into different programs in school.
So, but the thing about the ratios is the. Fewer teachers, you have the less risks you can partake in right? 1 teacher 1 risk. So if I am having a child in a tree, I have my eyes on that child. I don't have my eyes on everybody else. So, the nature of our program really. You know, begs to have at least 2 staff ideally, so that we can do carving and have fire because you're.
We're not going to have everybody doing one thing. That's just not, that's just not the way it goes. Um, so, but yes, we'll be licensed for 12 and ideally with two teachers minimum. [00:57:00] Yeah, that's awesome. That's so exciting. Um, yeah. It's been great to chat with you, Ada. I really, really appreciate it. I, um, as I said before, we started recording, the people behind me had a party till 2am and this little lady is tired.
I don't feel like I'm at my snappy best. But when we meet, we we've talked about we're going to do some recording and whatnot too. So that's going to be really exciting. So I'd be great to have you to your space and we can we can put that up and showcase it for people to I'm so excited to come and visit.
I can't wait. And you're speaking at the conference that I'm going to go to in Maine as well. So I'm going to be so cheering you on from the crowd. I'll be so glad to have you here. It'll be great. I love to have people come visit and, um, you know, I don't know who's listening and where they are, but I always tell people if [00:58:00] they ever happen to be in Maine, and they want to come visit, um, you know, I don't really have doors, but they're always open.
So you're always welcome again. And we open. Oh, well, and you are absolutely welcome in Australia. I, um, I will be happy to take you on a tour. If you come down, uh, I go and tour my educators every month. So, um, we could time that. So I can take you around and showcase some beautiful things that we do here in family daycare in Australia too.
So, uh. Hey, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it. And, uh, thank you once again for sharing your wisdom and your story.
All right. Well, we will talk again soon. Big love.
Hi friends, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you got a lot out of today's episode. When we work on our own [00:59:00] we can sometimes be in a silo, so having new perspectives and different ways of looking at things is vitally important for the growth of our individual selves and our professional selves as well.
We love feedback, so if you felt compelled to share what you thought of today's podcast, we would love to read your comments. Thoughts You can leave us a review on podcast that helps our podcast to get out to the wider community. And the more that hear what we have to share, we think the better it is.
Thanks so much, friend. We'll see you next time. Till then, big love.
